morning after

[raven]

Evan Harris lost his seat. Oh, God, why, why could this happen. He was my MP from 2005 to 2008 in Oxford West and Abingdon, and more than that, he's a good man and a good constituency MP: he's a thoughtful, smart, pro-science, pro-choice doctor who was a quietly understated force for good in Parliament. I note my flist as are upset about this as they are about the election as the whole, and they ought to be. He lost by 0.3% to the Tories. A Lib Dem MP, lost by 200 votes! This wasn't what was supposed to happen.

Oxford East was a Labour hold, thank goodness. It was declared at 3.30am, just before I went to bed. Sefton Central, the notional seat I voted in in 2005 - there's been a boundary change; in 2005 it was Crosby - has stayed resolutely Labour, despite the dire predictions of, well, just about everyone. The elected MP, Bill Esterson, is not the incumbent, so with a brand new Labour MP and no more Claire Curtis-Thomas, there's good there.

(Other local things: Caroline Lucas won in Brighton to be the first parliamentary Green MP; John Pugh, lovely lovely leatherfaced man, kept his seat in Southport; Nick Griffin was thankfully trounced in Barking.)

I keep thinking I ought to be more apologetic about being happy that Labour held the seats I vote in. Well... I'm not. I don't want a Conservative government, I hate the fucking Tories. They don't believe in distributive justice, they don't believe in queer rights, they were the party of Margaret Thatcher and Enoch Powell. I get told I shouldn't revisit the sins of the fathers on them - but no one tells me why I have to forgive.

And as for the Lib Dems... I'm sorry. I don't get the thing. They're a perfectly nice centrist party, I guess. But I don't understand how they can be contemplating coalition with the Tories for any reason other than power. I know, I know, "mandate", yes Nick Clegg we get it, blah blah blah. But mandate isn't, you know, cake. It isn't out there in the world. It's in your head. If they didn't get a majority of the seats in Parliament, I don't really see the argument for a Tory minority government being any stronger than a Lib-Lab coalition. A Lib-Tory coalition makes no ideological sense to me, but I have real fear that that's going to be where we end up.

edit: no, that is where we're going to end up. (thanks, proskynesis.)

Argh. Why did I even get up.

Comments

[liminereid.livejournal.com]

IF clegg collaborates with the Tories.. Just I can't believe it.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking he will, you know. He was suspiciously vague on the issue during the campaign, when it was an easy thing to say yes or no to - I think he's wanted to all along, and hasn't said so for fear of alienating left-wing voters.

[liminereid.livejournal.com]

I realsie my language is hysterical but if Clegg takes the Tories over Labour for a coalition, I genuinely believe he has betrayed his core voters.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I really don't think that's hysterical at all.

[proskynesis]

I can. Clegg's been hoping for this all along. Fuck him, and his admiration of Thatcher.

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I think he's been modelling himself as Cameron's perfect mate right the way through.

Elections

[omasta.livejournal.com]

If I were a Lib-Dem, the biggest casualty of current elections, I would ask one simple question: why on earth the First-Past-The-Post system works at the constituency level but it completely doesn't work at the state (UK) level? It is as Cameron has won a long distance run, been the first in the finish line but is so weak after the run that must be supported by Clegg to reach the podium for winners.

Re: Elections

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Well, that's not the problem, is it? Cameron hasn't won decisively - he's won 36.1% of the popular vote, which isn't enough for a majority whether or not we'd had PR. PR would have given the Lib Dems a lot more power, but it wouldn't have done Cameron much good.

[lizzip.livejournal.com]

Oh argh to your edit :( Why, LD, why.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I don't know, honey. I really don't know.

[rhipowered.livejournal.com]

And as for the Lib Dems... I'm sorry. I don't get the thing. They're a perfectly nice centrist party, I guess. But I don't understand how they can be contemplating coalition with the Tories for any reason other than power.

This is what I want to tell half my friendslist.

(Sorry I keep hijacking your LJ, I just like what you have to say both in fandom and political stuffs.)

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

*grins* I will never disagree with people agreeing with me.

Also, while we're on the subject, would you clear up something for me? All the time we've been chatting, I've thought you were American. Are you not, and have I just been being an eejit all this time?

[rhipowered.livejournal.com]

I am indeed an American, but my fiancé is an Englishman living in Glasgow, and for various and sundry reasons (namely the US having even more ridiculous an immigration policy) we will be living in Scotland after the wedding in August. So I've got lots of vested interest in UK politics but a slight lack of context, as well as frustration on the topic of immigration.

[biascut.livejournal.com]

I am so not surprised. I clocked Clegg for an economic liberal at about his first party conference, and that was pretty much when I decided I was resolutely Labour after all.

I thought the only thing that might stop a Lib-Tory coalition would be that the Tories would never agree to electoral reform. If they do agree to electoral reform, then I will grudgingly accept it. If the Lib Dems go into coalition or pact with the Tories without getting electoral reform, I will spend the next five years looking at Lib Dem voters incredulously.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

*nods* You're right. I mean, I don't disagree that if we must have tax cuts, they're better the first £10,000 than £200,000 for the richest people, but - well, must we have tax cuts? (I am still not an economist, but.) I tried for ages to make myself vote Lib Dem in Oxford East. I couldn't do it.

The electoral reform thing confuses me. I keep seeing people talking about the disparity between numbers of seats and the popular vote as though it were something that's just been discovered! I don't know if the Tories will go for it now, but my gut instinct says no.

[biascut.livejournal.com]

I think it's sometimes starker than other times? Like the US electoral college: sometimes it matches up fairly well, but at other times everyone goes, "Oh ... yeah."

Commenters on the Guardian are saying that Clegg is being very canny by inviting the Tories to try and form a government first but making electoral reform a pre-condition of any agreement, meaning that if they refuse he can say, "Well, that's my pre-condition, you turned it down" and turn to Labour. Fingers crossed that I am being unduly cynical...

[bookwormsarah.livejournal.com]

I have tried to write a coherant post on similar lines, but keep deleting it in frustration. I am a Labour person, and I like and trust Gordon Brown. I infinitely prefer him to Tony Blair, and I think he is the best of the possible PMs. I partially understand the reasons behind Nick Clegg talking to the Tories - they have the most seats and it makes sense on some level, but politically they are widely apart. I'm watching that space.

Labour held Durham City, Labour gained Bethnal Green and Bow, Labour held Birmingham Edgbaston. I cling to these thoughts. I am sure it is just tiredness that makes me feel like crying.

Ugh, Conservatives have broken 300 seats.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I don't trust and like Gordon Brown as much as I did once, and that goes double for Labour. But... who else? You know? I voted Labour because, in the end, there isn't a choice, is there.

In short: I am right there with you. Argh.

[fanbeatsman.livejournal.com]

I am horrified about Evan Harris. I remember seeing him speak at the Union on stem cell research and pro choice issues and being so pleased that I was able to vote for him and support him in the 2005 election. That result really felt like a punch in the stomach.

I am also angry and frustrated that in my constituency, my only viable option to make a stand against the Tories was to vote for a thoroughly unpleasant man who was a terrible local councillor and has personally pissed on members of my family on more than one occasion. I voted Lib Dem instead, and I regret it. Not happy this morning.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

God, me too, me too. Such a good MP, such an all-round good guy.

I'm sorry that your options were so limited. That really sucks.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I don't believe that there are party mandates in the British political system; the only MPs who have clear mandates are those who have more than 50% of the vote. The mandate belongs to the Commons as a whole, poor things.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

The more I think about it, the more I worry about the whole nebulosity of it. I'm okay with legitimacy as a concept - Parliament is usually legitimate - but when does the magical mandate come into play? Does it really mean, more than 50% of the vote, or more votes than anyone else, or enough votes for people not to make a fuss?

[annikah.livejournal.com]

I find it bitterly ironic that I moved to the UK the year Obama was elected, and was elated that things were (maybe) starting to look up back in the U.S., and now the Conservatives are doing well here. Argh.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

*deep breath* They aren't doing nearly as well as they could. In fact, Labour just had a total collapse and they still haven't got a majority. I keep telling myself this.

(Oh, 1997! I wish it were 1997.)

[annikah.livejournal.com]

True; it is true. Though I admit it's been taking a bit of mind-bending to get used to a multiple party system.

[manynames.livejournal.com]

My excellent Labour MP lost by 194 votes as well. Gutting. I hate the Tories as well. I suppose the absolute best we can hope for at this point is a Lib Dem/Tory coalition that results in at least some electoral reform, and then another election before too long.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I agree entirely, much as it makes me wail and gnash my teeth. Graaargh.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

All of this. All of it.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

*cliiing*

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

ps. to repeat myself somewhat from phone, am the same on refusing to be apologetic for being happy about Labour's victories. I know the Labour dude in Oxford East is something of a partybot, but if he actually bothered engaging with and doing outreach to the local community rather than relying on student vote, then good for him. (Even Seb who was v pro LD was admitting on Thursday night that the campaign there was pretty ill thought out)

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

It occurs to me that the LDs missed an easy trick in Oxford East: the Nick Clegg Q&A I went to. If they'd made that a public event, which Brookes would've been silly to object to, rather than students only, it would have been a low-marginal-effort nice touch. So, I don't know, but I'm tired of being told I shouldn't have voted for Smith. He wrote to me. He was interested in courting my vote. *shrugs* I would've voted for him anyway, but I do resent Lib Dem and Tory implications that I'm self-deluding in continuing to support Labour.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

Oh, that wasn't a public event? Wow. I'm surprised they missed out on that one, a party leader so close to the election...I mean, I know both Oxford and Brookes have students-only events, but at that time of year?!

[msilverstar]

I am so hoping that Clegg has a heart after all, and will not go into coalition with the Tories. Dammit.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I think he will, now. I wish I didn't think so.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

I KEEP ON reading this comment as "I am so hoping that Clegg has a heart attack"! And then thinking, "gosh, I understand people being angry with him, but that is rather nasty".

[ressie-noldo.livejournal.com]

Re. the Lib Dems, I've been trying not to say 'I told you so' to the people who asked me why I wasn't voting for them, but, er, I told them so. Also, yes, what you said, all of it. Fuck the Tories, seriously.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

aaaargh, fuck 'em. Fuck David Cameron and his fucking smug face.

[subservient-son.livejournal.com]

Leon Britten, whom Clegg worked for, always thought he should be a Tory. Europe was the reason Clegg became a Lib Dem.

I think Clegg's in a really difficult position now. If he form a coalition with the Tories, it's electoral suicide, but if he doesn't he's open to accusations of being unambitious and irresponsible.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

If he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, then he should do something principled and bear the storm. (My fear is that this is what he's doing.)

[burnmybridges.livejournal.com]

The BNP got more seats where I live than the Green party did...and I get to continue feeling completely ashamed of my town. :(

Crappy election all round, really. :(

[bekkypk.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying anything on the Lib Dems but I wholeheartedly support you on the Tory-hate. There is one issue that I care about more then all the others combined, and it's probably silly considering all the issues at stake, so I'm not going to say it here... but it's one I know the Tories are all for, when it's the most disgusting thing in my world. For that reason alone I could never vote for the Cons.

I've actually been really frightened by these elections on a local level. I'm scared by the BNP, who managed to bring in 2200+ votes in my region. That just... makes me want to lose my faith in humanity and go and live in a cave. At least we kept Labour here, though 2 of our neighbours fell to the Cons.

I don't really know what I wanted to say, sorry hon. Just throwing my support behind the "WHY TORY WHY?!" I think. My heads a tad mangled after this week. More then anything else I'm glad it's over so we can get on with living with it, hopefully without my dad cussing the television.
xx

[burnmybridges.livejournal.com]

"I'm scared by the BNP, who managed to bring in 2200+ votes in my region. That just... makes me want to lose my faith in humanity and go and live in a cave."

Christ. :( I thought it was bad enough that they got over 1000 votes here.

Every time I don't think society could make me any more desperately sad for it, it does. :(

[bekkypk.livejournal.com]

Its horrible. Whats worse is I know one of the people who voted for them and up until that point I thought she was lovely! I don't think I'll be able to look her in the eye for a while, knowing how I feel about that :/
xx

[burnmybridges.livejournal.com]

Where I live people are openly racist and you either shut up about your political views if they don't fit in with the "norm" or get a lot of grief. It's not a nice place.

[bekkypk.livejournal.com]

Urg. Horrible, horrible people. There again, my lot aren't so bad, but I don't feel I can air my views when they're having a go.
people fail to grasp the fact that we're all immegrants in this country anyway. And yes we shouldn't have people coming over here just to leech the system, but there are a lot of people out there who do require help.
And the amount of times I've had to shoot people down over the Poles... They do jobs a lot of people here wouldn't flaming *dream* of doing 'cos they think it's beneath them. When they go home they can buy a house for their families. It's as simple as them just doing what they can to get by, and I don't mind (even though my dad works in construction with many of them, I don't fear them 'taking his job' or anything)
xx

[burnmybridges.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

I think where I live just happens to be especially backward. Hopefully, as the younger generations who have grown up with multicultralism mature, things might get better. It's a very old town, with a real medieval mindset. Awful place to live if you don't go along with the general group think.

[mystefaction.livejournal.com]

This is one reason I'm so glad we use a preferential system, even if filling it out is sometimes a pain... What a kick in the gut, if Clegg settles. Hope it all turns out OK regardless. :-\