Blair resigns; toothbrushes are important.

[raven]

Eeee, sleep! Went to bed at three, got up at nine, feel marginally better although not by much. I went to the tutorial in question, which was bad for my head; my tute partner had written a six-page essay, 12-point single-spaced, and it took forty minutes to read. Groooan.

Right now, I'm watching Tony Blair's resignation speech in Sedgefield. He's stepping down on June 27th, as we all know - I liked Gordon Brown, talking about unemployment: "There are of course 600,000 vacancies in the economy as a result of- actually, there's one more today..." - and at the moment he's saying "Britain is not a follower today; Britain is a leader" and other such examples of syntactic parallelism. I have a problem with rhetoric, I think - I like the effective use of language so much that I end up being susceptible to it. So I'm not going to venture an opinion just yet on Tony Blair's departure. It's good for him to go. But more than that I will not say.

(Oh, no, wait: good rhetoric, again! He just used the phrase "messianic zeal", which I rather like.)

I now need to go and hide in the Social Science Library and read ridiculus amounts and do an essay and then go to Cerberus and then stage-manage and sneak out early and finish the essay before three am. I also-

(Shit, he just said, "The world knows it: this is the greatest nation on earth."

I am fresh from a theoretical analysis of the legacy of South Asian colonialism. URGH.)

I also need to get some sleep! In the meantime, though, also because of this tutorial, I am moved to examine some terribly important political issues. The thing is, I am Indian, my tute-partner is Indian, my tutor is Indian. Hence a mini culutural bubble (although we have so far avoided that horrific practice, evident among some people in tutes on British politics last year, of talking about "our government" and "our history") and I've been messing about on Facebook since I got back and found some group entitled "You know you're Indian when..."

A lot of these things ring true. One that stands out is, "You wonder why your English friends brush their teeth after breakfast when you do yours first thing in the morning..."

Yes! I have always wondered about this! Is it an English and/or British thing, to brush your teeth last thing in the morning? I never chalked this up to culture before. In fact, I never even thought about the social context of toothbrushes before. Quite possibly this is a lacuna in my education.

Actually, similarly - I wonder if it is a British cultural thing to fill the sink with water when you want to do the washing-up. I actually used to get in trouble at school for this - I was once accused of not knowing how to wash up, merely because I thought that filling the sink with bubbles was messy and unhygienic. Which it is. But again, maybe it's culture?

(Ahahahaha. Blair's just finished this speech, and the correspondent has just commented, blithely, "If you're worrying about the noise, that's just the anti-war protestors...")

Anyway! I need to do some work! I need to not babble about trivialities!

Comments

[dougs.livejournal.com]

Syntactic parallelism is good; syntactic parallelism is right; syntactic parallelism is the way forward for our country today. Politicians use it; preachers use it; Livejournalists use it. Illustrative examples work well in threes; linguistic constructs work well in threes; humour rather falls apart if it gets too repetitive.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

*g* That made me giggle.

[libellum.livejournal.com]

Thankyou! You are my resident news feed today; I hadn't heard this until your post.

I brush my teeth first thing in the morning, so I don't think it is a cultural thing. Although I did grow up in Leicester, which might explain it.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Hee! Providing a public service since 2002.

I don't know... I think that there's a statistically significant correlation between ethnic origin and teeth-brushing.

And I do not believe I just said that, kill me now.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

One that stands out is, "You wonder why your English friends brush their teeth after breakfast when you do yours first thing in the morning..."

Americans brush their teeth after breakfast too. The thing is that most of tooth decay happens in the first half hour after you eat, so brushing your teeth after meals really does make sense.

[icepixie]

That's the reason I do it after breakfast. (Or, well, after lunch, depending on how late I sleep in...)

Plus, orange juice--a typical American breakfast component--after minty toothpaste = YUCK.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

Same goes for lime cordial. Ewwwwwww.

(I love that there are more comments relating to tooth-brushing than the, y'know, important national politics. Hee.)

[casirafics.livejournal.com]

Americans brush their teeth after breakfast too.

Speaking as an American, um, no. First thing when I get up, or everything tastes horrific. ;)

I've never done it directly after breakfast, either, and given that I've never had a cavity, it doesn't seem to have harmed me any. I'm apparently an oddball as far as my office is concerned, though, considering that you simply can't walk into the bathroom after lunch without finding SOMEONE scrubbing away at their teeth like they've got some sort of vendetta against enamel. Seriously, I've never worked anywhere with such an obsession with dental hygiene before..... ;)

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I guess it makes sense from that perspective, but that surely can't be the historical reason? I always used to worry about this in primary school.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

I don't know, honestly. It's interesting how strongly people feel about these things for no real defensible reason. I was once involved in a fierce and cultural-background-driven debate about how often people ought to shower...

[balthaser.livejournal.com]

Lol at the toothbrush thing. I think it's more to do with having fresh breath once you leave the house. If you brush first, you sortof ruin the minty freshness by eating breakfast.
However,I don't eat breakfast so I just brush whenever I like.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Amen to that. I don't like eating breakfast with icky-night-breath.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

I brush them after eating because...well, I never saw the point of brushing them and then going out with bits of cereal in your mouth.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

*grins* This is a socially constructed opinion, apparently!

Political theory = love.

[sellars88.livejournal.com]

Brushing your teeth before drinking tea just makes it taste funny. Besides I am not awake enough to brush my teeth until after my first tea.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

That is an opinion I can get behind. I have had to master the art of sleeping-whilst-brushing-teeth.

[elyim.livejournal.com]

I am English. I brush my teeth as soon as I wake up, because I don't like nasty mouth taste, and don't want to inflict morning breath on everyone else.

I always wash up under running water despite always being told off because IT MAKES NO SENSE to put things in murky, horrible water with the intent of cleaning them. And to stand there elbow deep in it.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I hereby annoint you an honorary Indian. *annoints* :)

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Actually, similarly - I wonder if it is a British cultural thing to fill the sink with water when you want to do the washing-up. I actually used to get in trouble at school for this - I was once accused of not knowing how to wash up, merely because I thought that filling the sink with bubbles was messy and unhygienic. Which it is. But again, maybe it's culture?

Ooh, ooh, I know this one! At least, I don't know whether it's a British/Irish thing specifically or a European thing, but I've come across the difference before. When I was in my first year at university and living with lots of SE Asian students, I commented to my half-Indian boyfriend that I didn't understand why they didn't just fill the sink because it would save water, and he looked at me in horror and said OF COURSE you washed your dishes in running water not standing water. I ended up switching over to washing in running water, but then Glitz asked me to switch back because it was a waste of water. Now I try to do as much as possible whilst the tap is running to fill the bowl, and then do whatever's left in in the standing water. I can't really decide which I think is better.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

This seems a wee bit odd to me in light of the correlation I'm trying to make. In India, there is precious little water to spare - but people don't fill their sinks. Perhaps it's because dishes are washed under outside taps and pumps, without a sink to fill?

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Yes, it seems odd to me that Britain would have the apparently more water-conserving method. But there's no reason why standing water would necessarily be more water-conserving. After all, showers are supposed to be more environmentally friendly than baths. And presumably, there'd be significant numbers of people washing things in rivers and streams and things. Standing water is only more efficient if you've got high water pressure, which presumably isn't generally the case where water is scarce.

Are there any ritual associations with running water in Hinduism, do you know? I tended to assume that there would be a link to Muslims needing access to running water to wash before praying. European Christianity is kind of terminally uninterested in rituals about eating, dressing, cooking, washing and so on, compared to most of the world religions. But I might be talking rubbish.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

You know, I never thought of that, but there are. Perhaps not explicitly, but you bathe before prayer, before all religious ceremonies, in fact. And rivers are holy, not just Ganga, (although it is perhaps the most sacred), but all of them. It must be a mixture of culture and religion to revere water, particularly on the desert plains: you can even see it in the names of the rivers. (I'm thinking of Brahmaputra, the only male river in India - "Brahma" means "God.") Part of the ritual of offerings involves water being poured onto each murti, and water from Ganga (Gangajul) is used as a blessing.

My knowledge/experience is limited, of course, but I rather think that to consider water as holy is so natural that it doesn't play any openly explicit part in society, but is underneath a lot of common practice. And I do apologise, this became a general ramble about religion, rather than dishwashing!

I need a talking-about-Hinduism icon. Hmmm.

[pinkishmew.livejournal.com]

But... but if you brush your teeth first, then orange juice with breakfast tastes all wrong, and my marmite on toast tastes all manky. So I brush your teeth when I'm done eating, which is after breakfast.

I - but - rinse off bubbles with water, then everything gets bubbles and everything gets rinsed and is all clean, no? ... Really, no? I used to individually bubble everything, but it takes a lot longer.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Marmite on toast is MANKY ALL THE TIME. :P

Urgh, but. The water is standing in the bottom of the sink and gets full of all the horrible stuff! Surely it's easier to wash it all clean under the tap!

[pinkishmew.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I rinse plates of gunk and stuff, put them in water, wipe them with bubbly cloth, rinse them (not back into the bowl). I don't know, sometimes things need soaking.

But I did brush my teeth as soon as I'd woken up today. I blame you. My teeth felt very weird after breakfast, because I wasn't brushing them.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

Ah brush my teeth first thing in the morning usually. As my mouth generally feels utterly yuck when I wake. Solved by delicious peppermint, yay!

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Amen! Yes, this is my logic.

[ressie-noldo.livejournal.com]

I am clearly very very Indian, because the first thing I do in the morning (well, after staggering about blearily defacing my alarm clock and et cetera) is brush my teeth -- the logic behind this is mostly 'bleargh, eating the night's accumulated mouth bacteria? Eurgh.'.

Also, I do vehemently insist on using running water for the dishes. Because ick, manky water which dishes have already been in! The horror!


An interesting question I ought to ask myself at this point is why I seem to gravitate to anything with the word 'Indian' in it like a moth to a candle flame. Clearly I have unresolved issues. (And mixed metaphors.)

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is exactly what I do. And eee, horror! Totally agree.

If you do have unresolved issues, I have them too! I always gravitate towards "Indian", but especially in the LJ context, because I kind of want to find out what my modern-day, different-from-my-parents, internet/LJ/fandom-consuming cultural identity is, you know? If that makes any sense at all.

[kuteki.livejournal.com]

It is a sad thing that I tend to get my info on current affairs from my flist, heh, well, at least it's all accurate.

I don't know about teeth thing, but filling your sink with water is definitely a British thing, where else do you have separate cold and hot taps? That's the reason for its origin I suppose, but it is unpleasant and unhygienic and very much baffled me at school as well.

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I must now ask: how do you, culturally speaking, wash your dishes? *g* And if you don't mind me asking, what is your cultural identity? I don't think I've ever heard you talk about it.

[amchau.livejournal.com]

I don't like the phrase 'messianic zeal', because it rings of Jesus-freaks knocking on my door.

I brush my teeth after breakfast, because what's the point of cleaning them and then covering them in food? But not too soon after breakfast, because brushing straight after acidic things (like orange juice) can erode the enamel, or so I'm told.

In an ideal world, I would do washing up by a three-fold method-- scrapping off the worst mess, scrubbing in warm bubbly water (the bubbles are detergent to cut through grease), and then rising in very very hot clean water. In hall I usually settle for 'has been wet and has no visible dirt'.

This is all very fascinating and my inner Daniel Jackson wants to write a paper about it. (When do the Goa'uld brush their teeth, and do the Jaffa shower every day?)

[amchau.livejournal.com]

(Further to the thing on washing up-- at home, I do glasses, which mark if not rinsed, first, dunking them in bubbles and then rinsing under the tap as it fills up the sink or washing-up bowl. Some people traditionally put their used washing-up water on the garden, which is a good use of water, explains collecting it in a bowl, and probably the food bits aren't bad for the plants. I have also heard it said-- I'm sure you can confirm or deny this-- that taking a bath, i.e. sitting around in your own soapy water, is a British/European thing, and that most Indians wouldn't dream of doing anything but showering. Is that true, and if so do you think it has any bearing on the washing up issue?)

(I really ought to be revising, but I can't be bothered. First exam not for 11 days, lalalalalalala.)

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

It's absolutely true. There are no bathtubs in Indian houses - most people will react with horror to the thought of doing that to get yourself clean. (Even in my case, my well-documented adoration of hot baths is purely for the relaxing aspect - I wouldn't do it in place of a shower.) Mostly I would explain it by a lack of hot water and of cold weather, and indeed, because taps and pumps are often outside. I think it has a lot of bearing on the dishwashing issue; running water is the constructed norm, if I may lapse into pol-theory-speak.

[amchau.livejournal.com]

Whereas in the British climate, hot water is required if you are to be comfortably naked in it, and it's not so long since that meant heating it in kettles over the fire. So the British evolve a tradition of hot baths, and are thus equally happy to wash their dishes in standing hot water-- filled with bubbles very akin to those with which they fill their baths.

Which is to say: yes. Exactly. Our norms differ, which is one of the ways in which we can tell that they are indeed constructed.

[amchau.livejournal.com]

Reading this through again (over a year later!), I'm starting to wonder if there isn't some sort of British belief in the magic of soap. I'm sure that washing up water is considered 'clean' long after it actually is clean, if it has bubbles, because bubbles (soap) kill germs and make things clean. Ditto with baths: in British subconscious belief the soap which makes things clean, not the water, water's just there to make it lather up.

I may be totally off-base with this, but I'm sure something like that is going on, since I know people (British people of my parent's age) who declare that they can't get 'really clean' in a shower: it's easier to check that you've been soaped all over when sitting down.

I'm guessing that the soap situation in India may be very different, especially historically, but I don't really know.

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

I was raised to brush my teeth first thing in the morning. The whole breakfast conundrum doesn't apply to me, since I rarely eat it. My mom brushes her teeth both when she wakes up and after she eats, so...

Actually, similarly - I wonder if it is a British cultural thing to fill the sink with water when you want to do the washing-up. I actually used to get in trouble at school for this - I was once accused of not knowing how to wash up, merely because I thought that filling the sink with bubbles was messy and unhygienic. Which it is. But again, maybe it's culture?

It's cultural. I don't even think it's a British/non-British thing, because I've seen it done all sorts of ways in the States. In my house, the washing up is always done under hot running water. My family is fervently anti-manky water. (We're also a showering bunch. Why would you want to sit in your own filth?)

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

I think the plus-point of baths isn't the washing aspect. I just like them for the aaaah-hot-bath factor, which I'm fully aware is something I've got from my adopted culture.

[anotherusedpage.livejournal.com]

I brush my teeth first thing rather than after breakfast. And I have such washing-up angst, because on the one hand, I was always told not to ever leave the tap running, but on the other hand washing up in a bowl of manky water rather than under hot running water is clearly gross. And I don't remember which my parents used to do at home before there was a dishwasher! I tend towards running water, myself.
Both of these things I did differently to my (working class, english) school friends when I was a kid. I always identified it as a class thing rather than a cultural british vs European thing...

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Is there a sense in which your cultural identity make you do everyday things differently, though? I'm really interested in this, now!

[anotherusedpage.livejournal.com]

I am sure that there must be some, but I can't think of any off the top of my head, not that I can directly point to and say 'dude, jewish heritage'. We tend to eat meals later at night that many english families I know, and we tend to serve out of communal dishes rather than portioning up. But that could be left over from my parents hippy commune days...
And you?

[loneraven.livejournal.com]

Word on the eating-later thing and on the communal-dishes thing, too! (In fact, it wasn't until I came to university that I realised the latter wasn't European standard.) Other than that, one thing I always notice is that people here don't uniformly give the same respect to books/writing materials as I would perhaps do. (In a Hindu house, you wouldn't get books on the floor, you wouldn't let your feet touch them, for example. Although that may be my specific caste heritage at work, too.) Oh, and even though I'm not vegetarian, I don't think a meal without meat in it is somehow "incomplete" - an attitude I think is more common in this country - and that's because Hinduism tends to prohibit at least beef, and often more.