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ravenIn which I rant about something that's been happening in RL, and it's long and, well, ranty, so feel free to skip, please.
So, I have this friend, Q. Obviously Q is not her real initial - whose real initial is Q? - but I've decided to take up discretion, at least for the duration of this. Nevertheless, some of you will be able to take a reasonable stab at who she is is from what follows, and I'd ask if you could keep it to yourself, because it is the sort of thing that really does require discretion. I'm writing it down here mostly to get it clear in my head, because it's complicated and it's been building for a while.
To begin, I haven't known Q. for more than six months, but due to the proximity in which we all live here, it hardly matters. I'm much more involved in all of this than I would like to be, in some ways. Anyway, she has problems. These problems are serious enough to affect everyone around her, and no attempt to resolve them has gone any way towards succeeding. It's all tied up in the fact she can't cope with life on her own. It's a blunt way to put it, but it is true. First of all, she's very, very naive. (A brief example here should suffice: she asked, the other night, what the word "masturbation" means. She's a nineteen-year-old woman, which makes this surprising, but more than that, I asked her why she didn't look it up in the dictionary, and she was shocked to hear that "bad" words are in there. She was even more shocked to hear that masturbation is something everyone does, and in more general terms, that sex isn't intrinsically bad or wrong.)
That's digressing a bit. That's her naiveté, but her childishness is something different; she doesn't know, for example, how to take part in a group conversation. She doesn't know that you don't jump in and say what's on your mind, but have to wait for a gap in the conversation; she doesn't realise that you can't single-mindedly pursue your own agenda in a conversation but have to make account of what the other people want to talk about. Also, she doesn't quite grasp the concept of tact, for example that it isn't advisable to trash someone's degree subject when they're listening! (I'm not that offended; PPE really is evil.) This makes talking to her a little exasperating, as you can probably imagine.
But so far these aren't problems, per se. The thing is, she can't cope with her workload. It's the same as everyone else's workload, that is to say pretty heavy, but she doesn't seem to be able to pursue sensible study patterns. She's a perfectionist, I think; what this manifests as is her working long hours into the night, writing reams and reams for simple questions. She's very clever and she does well, but it takes its toll on her. Consequently, she's always "stressed", but I put that in quotes because really, it goes beyond stress. She starts to question her entire self-worth, she goes on and on about how stupid and worthless she is, she compares herself to other people constantly, she's never satisfied with her own efforts. And she tells this to her friends, myself included, who were initially sympathetic, but after many, many weeks, are just exasperated. She doesn't listen to any of the advice they give her, she rebuts everything they try to say to console her, and after a long while, they forced her to go and see the Chaplain. From his account, she lied outright to him, told him everything was fine and dandy and that they were making a fuss over nothing. Regardless, he persuaded her to make an apppointment with a counsellor. The first three appointments they tried to send to her, she said she couldn't make; then her friends stepped in again and looked over her shoulder while she filled in the form. She made the appointment. On the day of it, though, she didn't go, and claimed to have overslept.
That day, she asked me to come up to her room to help her, she was stressed, and let slip that she hadn't gone. After a long time of trying not to do so, I lost my temper and a had a good go at her; in short, I told her that seeing as she wouldn't take any help offered her, I wasn't going to bother again and stormed out.
But of course it didn't last; in the end we were back in the old pattern of her getting stressed and crying and ringing everyone up at all hours of the day, and recently she's started getting onto the work thing. She rings me up and asks me how I answered this and that question, and although I helped out willingly enough the first couple of times, it gets wearing, week after week. And I started getting a little angry, too, because she behaves as though she has a right to my help and assistance, and, as I put it, doesn't respect my right to say no, to do my own thing.
And it's not just me - her family, who live as far from here as mine do, know how unhappy she is and come to visit her every weekend. She wants them to keep coming indefinitely, but she's always snapping at them, and she doesn't seem to see the sacrifice they're making. Regardless, she's always desperate to go home, and clings to the idea of home with a passion. What gets me, and her other friends, is how much she hates living on her own. She gets upset at the thought of doing her own laundry, she gets upset about making decisions, even minor ones, she can't seem to manage her own money. Once again, her friends have to help out, otherwise she'd fall apart.
And finally, this morning, she rang and the phone ringing woke me up. I answered, and she didn't apologise but immediately launched into her problems with her work, and what did I think, and would I be averse to coming up and going over it with her. I guess it was my sleep-deprived brain bypassing my tact centres, but I said, "Yes, I would be averse to that." And then of course I had to explain what I meant, and that I was tired of always having to carry her. She said she needed the help, but I said it wasn't fair, I don't get that help when I do the work. I call it her "entitlement complex" - she honestly believes everyone should drop everything and help her, which makes it all the more galling that she refused the only real help we could give - that appointment with the counsellor.
I went back to sleep. When I woke up, I went to see a mutual friend we have, who informed that she, Q., had gone to see the mutual friend, L., and complained about what I'd said. When L., had said that she thought maybe I had a point, Q. said, and I quote, "You must be really good friends with [Iona], to always take her side like that."
I was pissed off. And as if nothing had happened, she called me a further seven times - I counted - during the day, to ask for work help. Yes, I was pissed off and I still am pissed off. It's come to the point where I'm actually reluctant to answer my phone in case it's her. This is not good. But in the end, the girl is unhappy. She's clearly desperately unhappy, and she needs me and her other friends because without us she'd be absolutely lost. She doesn't know how to look after herself at all, and while she doesn't listen to any of the help we or her family try to give her, I think we're all reluctant to stop trying. But it comes to the point where you don't know what to do any more, doesn't it? I went to see the Chaplain again, to make him email her about whether or not she went to counselling, but she ignores his emails.
So I rant. And now it is time for bed.
So, I have this friend, Q. Obviously Q is not her real initial - whose real initial is Q? - but I've decided to take up discretion, at least for the duration of this. Nevertheless, some of you will be able to take a reasonable stab at who she is is from what follows, and I'd ask if you could keep it to yourself, because it is the sort of thing that really does require discretion. I'm writing it down here mostly to get it clear in my head, because it's complicated and it's been building for a while.
To begin, I haven't known Q. for more than six months, but due to the proximity in which we all live here, it hardly matters. I'm much more involved in all of this than I would like to be, in some ways. Anyway, she has problems. These problems are serious enough to affect everyone around her, and no attempt to resolve them has gone any way towards succeeding. It's all tied up in the fact she can't cope with life on her own. It's a blunt way to put it, but it is true. First of all, she's very, very naive. (A brief example here should suffice: she asked, the other night, what the word "masturbation" means. She's a nineteen-year-old woman, which makes this surprising, but more than that, I asked her why she didn't look it up in the dictionary, and she was shocked to hear that "bad" words are in there. She was even more shocked to hear that masturbation is something everyone does, and in more general terms, that sex isn't intrinsically bad or wrong.)
That's digressing a bit. That's her naiveté, but her childishness is something different; she doesn't know, for example, how to take part in a group conversation. She doesn't know that you don't jump in and say what's on your mind, but have to wait for a gap in the conversation; she doesn't realise that you can't single-mindedly pursue your own agenda in a conversation but have to make account of what the other people want to talk about. Also, she doesn't quite grasp the concept of tact, for example that it isn't advisable to trash someone's degree subject when they're listening! (I'm not that offended; PPE really is evil.) This makes talking to her a little exasperating, as you can probably imagine.
But so far these aren't problems, per se. The thing is, she can't cope with her workload. It's the same as everyone else's workload, that is to say pretty heavy, but she doesn't seem to be able to pursue sensible study patterns. She's a perfectionist, I think; what this manifests as is her working long hours into the night, writing reams and reams for simple questions. She's very clever and she does well, but it takes its toll on her. Consequently, she's always "stressed", but I put that in quotes because really, it goes beyond stress. She starts to question her entire self-worth, she goes on and on about how stupid and worthless she is, she compares herself to other people constantly, she's never satisfied with her own efforts. And she tells this to her friends, myself included, who were initially sympathetic, but after many, many weeks, are just exasperated. She doesn't listen to any of the advice they give her, she rebuts everything they try to say to console her, and after a long while, they forced her to go and see the Chaplain. From his account, she lied outright to him, told him everything was fine and dandy and that they were making a fuss over nothing. Regardless, he persuaded her to make an apppointment with a counsellor. The first three appointments they tried to send to her, she said she couldn't make; then her friends stepped in again and looked over her shoulder while she filled in the form. She made the appointment. On the day of it, though, she didn't go, and claimed to have overslept.
That day, she asked me to come up to her room to help her, she was stressed, and let slip that she hadn't gone. After a long time of trying not to do so, I lost my temper and a had a good go at her; in short, I told her that seeing as she wouldn't take any help offered her, I wasn't going to bother again and stormed out.
But of course it didn't last; in the end we were back in the old pattern of her getting stressed and crying and ringing everyone up at all hours of the day, and recently she's started getting onto the work thing. She rings me up and asks me how I answered this and that question, and although I helped out willingly enough the first couple of times, it gets wearing, week after week. And I started getting a little angry, too, because she behaves as though she has a right to my help and assistance, and, as I put it, doesn't respect my right to say no, to do my own thing.
And it's not just me - her family, who live as far from here as mine do, know how unhappy she is and come to visit her every weekend. She wants them to keep coming indefinitely, but she's always snapping at them, and she doesn't seem to see the sacrifice they're making. Regardless, she's always desperate to go home, and clings to the idea of home with a passion. What gets me, and her other friends, is how much she hates living on her own. She gets upset at the thought of doing her own laundry, she gets upset about making decisions, even minor ones, she can't seem to manage her own money. Once again, her friends have to help out, otherwise she'd fall apart.
And finally, this morning, she rang and the phone ringing woke me up. I answered, and she didn't apologise but immediately launched into her problems with her work, and what did I think, and would I be averse to coming up and going over it with her. I guess it was my sleep-deprived brain bypassing my tact centres, but I said, "Yes, I would be averse to that." And then of course I had to explain what I meant, and that I was tired of always having to carry her. She said she needed the help, but I said it wasn't fair, I don't get that help when I do the work. I call it her "entitlement complex" - she honestly believes everyone should drop everything and help her, which makes it all the more galling that she refused the only real help we could give - that appointment with the counsellor.
I went back to sleep. When I woke up, I went to see a mutual friend we have, who informed that she, Q., had gone to see the mutual friend, L., and complained about what I'd said. When L., had said that she thought maybe I had a point, Q. said, and I quote, "You must be really good friends with [Iona], to always take her side like that."
I was pissed off. And as if nothing had happened, she called me a further seven times - I counted - during the day, to ask for work help. Yes, I was pissed off and I still am pissed off. It's come to the point where I'm actually reluctant to answer my phone in case it's her. This is not good. But in the end, the girl is unhappy. She's clearly desperately unhappy, and she needs me and her other friends because without us she'd be absolutely lost. She doesn't know how to look after herself at all, and while she doesn't listen to any of the help we or her family try to give her, I think we're all reluctant to stop trying. But it comes to the point where you don't know what to do any more, doesn't it? I went to see the Chaplain again, to make him email her about whether or not she went to counselling, but she ignores his emails.
So I rant. And now it is time for bed.
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no subject
on 2006-03-06 05:10 am (UTC)Mind you, I don't think the counsellor would help if she doesn't want it.
But that doesn't mean you have to help her. What she needs is to grow up, really.
(I still think that anyone who doesn't look up dirty words in the dictionary has missed out. Especially on the sheer effort involved in translating the definition.)
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:07 pm (UTC)That's the problem right there, I think; she's too far gone to even want help. It's a little ridiculous.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 09:47 pm (UTC)(But has she never heard about it until now? Poor girl. She needs to read more. ;))
Trust me, she needs some sort of wake-up call. And I think she just wants her friends to help, because they seem to care. Anyone else is paid to care. *shakes head* never thought I'd see it in anyone else, though.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 05:28 am (UTC)This bit, in particular, sounds exactly like two of my friends. The thing is, she can't cope with her workload. ...She's a perfectionist, I think; ...She's very clever and she does well, but it takes its toll on her. Consequently, she's always "stressed", but I put that in quotes because really, it goes beyond stress. She starts to question her entire self-worth, she goes on and on about how stupid and worthless she is, she compares herself to other people constantly, she's never satisfied with her own efforts.
One of those two friends (well, my girlfriend) has gotten to the stage where she is mature enough to measure her workload - she feels guilty if she isn't busy doing something, so her workload is always high, but she is able to recognise when she is reaching her stress-limit, and realise that she needs to let some things go. The other friend is still at the stage where she'll work herself into a nervous wreck, and needs her friends to nearly bodily drag her out into real life again.
What is different is that my friends tend to the self-esteem-is-too-low to ask for help end of the spectrum. As such, I don't think I can offer any advice, except that the gf mentioned to me that some people (like she used to!) don't view consellors as people-who-can-help, but someone you're sent to as punishment when you're loony.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:09 pm (UTC)no subject
on 2006-03-06 09:33 am (UTC)(Overuse of commas.. I must be tired.)
no subject
on 2006-03-06 09:38 am (UTC)no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:10 pm (UTC)no subject
on 2006-03-06 11:13 am (UTC)There's not really a lot you can do about that, although snapping every so often doesn't tend to help. *has discovered this the hard way* Hope and pray that she learns that sort of stuff sorts itself out eventually, because I don't know what you're meant to do to teach people Coping As An Adult.
But that's an aside.
As for the constantly phoning you up for work help, just put your foot down. Next time she complains that it's not right, then tell her your help obviously isn't doing anything and don't give it. She sounds unhappy, which is totally understandable, but maybe a sharp shock will help?
You're both at the end of your scond term at univeristy. She should be adjusting by now, and if not, you need to frogmarch her to people who can help her out. She's obviously very, very bright, but she also might not be ready for university. Sometimes you do get people who have been brought up in a fairly priviledged way with parents doing pretty much everything for them, including help with homework on demand, and the shock that all that help has gone can be a hell of a shock to the system, particularly if its combined with being totally sheltered as a result of the, well, coddling.
I hope it works out, because I am useless at giving advice. *hugs*
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:13 pm (UTC)You're absolutely right that it's the coddling that's done it. She's the most sheltered person I've ever met - Christ, the things she doesn't know! - and it's had a bad effect. She needs help. And yes, possibly a sharp shock if I can bring myself to it.
no subject
on 2006-03-07 03:36 pm (UTC)Sharp shocks are not fun to give but occasionally necessary. I think maybe a few of you need to sit her down and talk it out with her, as a thought.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 12:07 pm (UTC)What about phoning her up a couple of times a day for a couple of weeks to ask for help with work? Or help with other things? I mean, generally, asking her to do stuff for you. Maybe she'd work out how annoying it is...
Give her the number of Nightline. I forget exactly what hours it runs, but it might help some.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:16 pm (UTC)no subject
on 2006-03-06 12:37 pm (UTC)This girl has significant problems. Really, and honestly, the best thing you can do for her is to persistently and politely stonewall her: You do not have to help her with her work, and if she's having problems, she needs to go talk to the counsellor.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:18 pm (UTC)Easier said than done! But seriously, you make a good point. I shall just have to persist with it.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 11:10 pm (UTC)Oh, I know it's easier said than done. I just worry about you feeling guilty for stonewalling her, or her guilt-tripping you because you're not helping her. And you shouldn't. Get her to call Nightline. Or talk to the chaplain. Or a counsellor. Or someone.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 05:07 pm (UTC)This has to be done carefully, because too much at once is a shock, but sometimes you have to withdraw support or people never learn to cope. Think of teaching a baby to walk-- you have to take your hands away sometimes, right, or the kid will never learn to balance without you.
*hugs* for having to deal with this stuff. Can you at least cut her down to one time in the day? Perhaps suggest that she saves up the questions she wants to ask and calls you with them all at once, which will produce a longer conversation but might also a) give her time to think about the questions herself, and b) let you get on for the rest of the day, while giving her the feeling of being supported. And, at the worst, you can go out at the set time, 'accidentally', and miss her, without resorting to never answering your phone.
I was going to ask you about July (following my typo in a previous comment) and when I could call you, but you can probably guess what the questions are and answer them if you feel like it.
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:26 pm (UTC)Re: July, I'm honestly not sure yet, as I'm trying to sort out internships at the moment, and as for calling me, I recommend Wednesday at some point. Today and tomorrow are somewhat hellish.
no subject
on 2006-03-07 08:34 am (UTC)No problem; I'll see how things shape up at my end, and if you know by the time I need to decide, I'll factor your position into it. And I won't be able to call you on Wednesday, most likely, as I have Brownies and then a meeting; how are Thursday and Friday likely to be?
no subject
on 2006-03-06 06:35 pm (UTC)I wish I could say stuff. When my flatmates had a problem with me (nothing like the above, twas an unreleted issue) they had the housing officer come to see me and talk to me in my room and whatever, can the uni not send somebody over like that? The lady who came to see me was the same one who did the flat inspections, so I think she was pretty much the person to go to for anything for our campus.
I'll stop there because I'm afraid the lady who came to see me didn't handle it very well and what she said still hurts now. Thats the downside, see, even if there is somebody like that you have to be sure they're going to handle it right.
xx
no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:27 pm (UTC)no subject
on 2006-03-06 07:28 pm (UTC)xx
no subject
on 2006-03-07 12:02 am (UTC)